Help!!!

"zeontestpilot" (zeontestpilot) 04/04/2015 at 14:24 • Filed to: None

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I'm stuck in East Lansing, with my wife, mom, sister, and my 2 yr old kid, in a pt cruiser that won't turn over. We got out of the car to eat, and when we returned, the dashboard lights came on but it won't turn over. Thoughts? Please help. We're an hour from home and insurance won't cover rental, -_-.

Update: the car got towed to the firestation, which is actually further from my house. The rest of my family is waiting at Wendy's because apparently rental places either don't open on Saturdays or don't do pickup, -_-. There is a buzzing noise near the starter and solenoid too, and all electrical stuff seems to work except the trunk. The trunk has no keyhole, and the release lever is electric, and for some reason it won't open.

As I told my wife "American engineering, am I right?"

505Turbeaux > zeontestpilot 04/04/2015 at 14:27

5

smack the starter solenoid with a rock or hammer while someone holds the key over to start. Let us know how it turns out

jkm7680 > zeontestpilot 04/04/2015 at 14:27

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Battery?

zeontestpilot > jkm7680 04/04/2015 at 14:28

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All the dashboard lights come on, plus it was replaced earlier this year.

zeontestpilot > 505Turbeaux 04/04/2015 at 14:29

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....where would I find that?

505Turbeaux > zeontestpilot 04/04/2015 at 14:32

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look around where the engine and transmission come together, I forget on those, but probably from underneath You know what a starter looks like, right? The smaller cylinder is the solenoid

extraspecialbitter > zeontestpilot 04/04/2015 at 14:34

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Is it cranking, or is there just silence?

zeontestpilot > 505Turbeaux 04/04/2015 at 14:34

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No idea what a starter looks like, -_-

MysticStick > zeontestpilot 04/04/2015 at 14:37

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Sounds like it might be a safety interlock issue? Try moving the gear lever into neutral?

cabarne4 > zeontestpilot 04/04/2015 at 14:37

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Is it making any noises when you try to start, or just silence / beeping with the dash lights on?

If you hear a whirring, like an electric motor, but no turning over, it could be the starter bendix. Basically, the starter is an electric motor, spinning a gear on a stick. This stick extends out, so that the gear hits the flywheel when you turn it on. The "bendix" is the part that makes it extend. If it gets seized, you'll hear the starter motor try to start the motor, but it's free spinning.

If it tries to crank, but sounds like it's not getting fuel, my first guess would be crankshaft position sensor. When you start the car, the starter makes the whole system turn over. The crankshaft position sensor sees the crank spin, then says to the ECU, "Hey, shit's spinning!". When the ECU hears that, he tells the fuel injectors to start... injecting. No word from the crankshaft position sensor, no fuel to the motor. It could also potentially be the fuel pump, but you would've noticed lack-of-fuel issues before it goes out (it's not normally a "sudden" thing). When you turn the car off, then turn the key to the "on" position, you should be able to hear a slight whir, as the fuel pump primes (it's usually under the back seat, if you want to put your ear to it).

Could potentially be battery. Worth hooking up jumpers and trying to jump. You may have enough power to run dash lights, but not the starter motor. (Do you hear the starter motor even trying to do anything?)

If you don't hear the starter motor trying to do anything, and jumping it does nothing (let it sit and charge off a running car for a couple minutes before trying to jump), could potentially be an electrical issue with the ignition switch. You've got the ignition lock cylinder (the thing the key goes into), which works like a typical lock — an inner and outer cylinder, locked together with tumblers. The key pushes the tumblers into a position where the inner cylinder turns freely. On the backside of this (inside the steering column) is the ignition switch / ignition solenoid. Basically, a very simple electrical switch. You turn the key, it makes a connection. Can break, thus not sending the signal to the ECU to "Start".

Newer cars (i.e. PT Cruiser) have chipped keys, so there's a component that reads the signal in the key. Between the ignition switch and the ECU will be an immobilizer (he's like the bouncer at the club), which receives the signal from this sensor. If the sensor doesn't read the right signal (i.e. The key turns the cylinder, but it's not the right key), the immobilizer won't let the ignition switch tell the ECU to start. Alternatively, if no signal is sent to the immobilizer, he'll also keep that weak ass signal out of the clu— er, ECU. This sensor is usually combined with the ignition switch.

Hope one of these leads to a good result.

EDIT: Just saw MysticStick's response. I drive only manual, so didn't even think about the safety interlock.

Basically, an automatic shifter just has a little cable that it pulls back on. At the top of it's travel (when the car is in Park), there's a little sensor that reads the position of the shifter and / or the shift cable. This is the safety interlock. Basically, it makes it so you can only start your car in Park. Occasionally, stuff gets out of line, and the sensor doesn't "see" the transmission linkage / lever in "Park". You can try either (1) moving the shifter all the way down to the bottom ("1" or "L") and push it back forward. Sometimes "slamming" it into Park will get the sensor to "see" it. Option two is to put it in neutral, as most cars will start in neutral as well.

505Turbeaux > zeontestpilot 04/04/2015 at 14:37

1

use this, something hard and heavy knocking against the solenoid while the key is in the start position, which is the upper cylinder in this picture (where the big wires come off it)

zeontestpilot > extraspecialbitter 04/04/2015 at 14:38

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Silence.

jkm7680 > zeontestpilot 04/04/2015 at 14:39

4

Then it's probably the battery, try to find a kind soul to help you jump it?

Also, check around and make sure the headlights or cabin lights weren't left on.

zeontestpilot > MysticStick 04/04/2015 at 14:40

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It's an auto, and everything is locked up now. Steering wheel, brakes, and shifter.

zeontestpilot > cabarne4 04/04/2015 at 14:43

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There might be a faint whirring when it's trying to turn over, but the 'key in ignition' sound is too loud, I can't hear it too well.

cabarne4 > zeontestpilot 04/04/2015 at 14:46

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If it's a faint whirring when trying to turn over, almost definitely a weak / non-working starter.

Here's a decent video I found of how to remove the starter. It's a pain in the ass to get to, but the starter itself is usually only held on by 2-3 bolts and a plug. Most auto parts stores can test the starter for free, so if you can get it removed and bring it in, you can get a definite yes / no if your starter is good or bad.

EDIT: Have someone else try to turn it over, while you lay on the ground in front of it (ok, definitely doesn't sound like the safest thing when put that way), and see if you can hear it then.

zeontestpilot > 505Turbeaux 04/04/2015 at 14:49

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I can see it, but I have nothing to use against it.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > zeontestpilot 04/04/2015 at 14:49

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Not even any sort of clicking noise? If you turn the headlights on, are they dim?

zeontestpilot > jkm7680 04/04/2015 at 14:50

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They weren't left on. would a new battery die so quickly?

jkm7680 > zeontestpilot 04/04/2015 at 14:52

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Anything is possible, check the connections?

jariten1781 > zeontestpilot 04/04/2015 at 14:56

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Agree, most likely battery. Flag someone down and try a jump. Now, if the alternator failed but battery is still good a jump'll get you going but it'll die again shortly. You can try to drive gas station to gas station to make it back if that's the case but it'd be better to grab a tow or find an open shop.

extraspecialbitter > zeontestpilot 04/04/2015 at 14:58

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Could be defective, or it could be an underlying issue. If you're constantly having to replace your battery, that's definitely signaling that something else is wrong with your car.

jariten1781 > zeontestpilot 04/04/2015 at 14:59

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Maybe. Also alternator could have gone kaput or lights left on (or a short) could have drained it even if it still could hold a charge.

505Turbeaux > zeontestpilot 04/04/2015 at 15:02

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no rocks around? use the lug wrench for your tires, or even the jack

zeontestpilot > BaconSandwich is tasty. 04/04/2015 at 15:08

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headlights seem to be ok

BaconSandwich is tasty. > zeontestpilot 04/04/2015 at 15:21

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If the headlights seem nice and bright, I'd think that'd rule out the battery/alternator. I'm going with starter on this one.

zeontestpilot > BaconSandwich is tasty. 04/04/2015 at 15:46

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The trunk is completely electrical, it won't open, so now I'm not sure...

McLarry > BaconSandwich is tasty. 04/04/2015 at 16:24

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How can you tell anything about the alternator without the engine running?

BaconSandwich is tasty. > McLarry 04/04/2015 at 18:01

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If the alternator was failing, it'd fail to charge the battery, would it not?

EDIT: If the battery is properly charged, that means either it has to be brand new or is getting properly charged by the alternator.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > zeontestpilot 04/04/2015 at 18:02

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Hmm, interesting. When you do figure it out, feel free to post what it was. I'm curious.

zeontestpilot > BaconSandwich is tasty. 04/04/2015 at 18:13

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The control module is bad. Plus the starter isn't working to well either.

McLarry > BaconSandwich is tasty. 04/04/2015 at 20:21

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Certainly. My thought was more that it doesn't really matter what the alternator is doing if you can't get the engine to turn over and the battery is holding voltage. Your observation isn't ridiculous or anything, it just seems irrelevant. Also I've been drinking bourbon all day, so excuse me if I was rude.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > McLarry 04/04/2015 at 22:32

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Eh, no worries. I'll be curious to see what it ended up being.